Inside ENM Matchmaking with Victoria Joseph

Inside ENM Matchmaking with Victoria Joseph | Episode 239

In this episode of The Swing Nation Podcast, the top-rated podcast about non-monogamy and swinging, Dan and Lacy sit down with a truly unique guest — Victoria Joseph, professional matchmaker, dating strategist, and founder of Birds of a Feather Matchmaking.

Victoria specializes in connecting people within the ethically non-monogamous, open, poly, and swinger communities — and she’s built a boutique matchmaking service designed specifically for those navigating love and connection outside of traditional relationship structures.

Dan and Lacy dive into the realities of dating in the lifestyle, and Victoria delivers expert advice on how to show up at events, make meaningful connections, and turn first impressions into lasting chemistry. From mindset shifts to practical strategies, this episode is packed with insight for anyone looking to level up their dating game.

To wrap things up, Victoria shares how listeners can join her exclusive matchmaking registry and take a more intentional approach to finding compatible partners within the lifestyle.

If you’ve ever wondered how matchmaking works in the ENM world — or how to date smarter, not harder — this episode is a must-listen.

🎧 Tune in now and don’t forget to follow, rate, and share The Swing Nation Podcast!

Connect with Victoria on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/enmmatchmaker
Victoria's Website: https://www.birdsofafeathermatchmaking.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of eighteen, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome to the Swing Nation Podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions that pushes with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe. Interview the experts. Learn and grow together. Join the nation. Hey there, pineapple people, and welcome to the Swing Nation Podcast. We are your host, Northern Guy. And Southern Girl. And today we have a special episode for you. We got Victoria Joseph with us. She's a certified matchmaker, uh, and she specializes in uh finding uh non-monogamous couple parents. Uh she's the founder of Birds of a Feather, uh, a matchmaking boutique uh boutique service that caters to ethically non-monogamous, open poly, and swinger lifestyle relationships. She helps both uh singles and couples find people and connect. And you also do some stuff with uh like single men and helping their confidence and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Did I nail all that, Victoria? I kind of cut down the notes you sent me, but I think I got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

It was good for the most part. I primarily so I it's primarily like singles who want to be in open relationships, but I also do some couples with like not as not as much.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Oh, interesting. So you you specialize in singles that are looking to find somebody that else that's non-monogamous.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yes, and then if they're partnered or poly, then um I also am creating something special for people who are partnered. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

But you had you have worked with couples that are just looking for other couples too, or yes, I so I get a lot of inquiries for couples who are seeking other couples, people who are partnered, who are poly, looking for other people who are partnered and poly. And so one of the things that I am creating with Birds of Feather matchmaking is something that I'm calling the nest, which is basically people who want a more who want a matchmaking experience that are coupled can maybe um find connections within my nest that I can find compatibility with that in that kind of way.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Interesting. Yeah, that's what I mean. Those are the I think we probably we get single men a lot that will email us and be like, I I'm looking for a wife that wants to be a swinger or whatever. So we do get that. Yeah, but we do get a lot of couples that are just like we are struggling to make connections. Like we message a couple and we show up for a date and then they don't show up, or they don't look like their pictures. Yeah, so we get a lot of so many things that we're struggling. So I think there's there's definitely a a market out that there for that.

SPEAKER_06 2:54

Dan and I met in the last so we were both non-monogamous and met on a swinger website, and we've had people say, like, how do I do that?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah, how to sign my Lacey.

SPEAKER_06 3:05

But it was just like we got lucky because neither one of us were really looking for anything, and we just kind of stumbled upon each other. But I can definitely see if you're a single person like trying to navigate like Tinder or like any of those like traditional like dating websites, and then you meet somebody and you get to know them, and you're like, oh, by the way, I want to be non-monogamous. That's got to be like a hard, hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

It is, yeah. People are pretty hesitant to meet organically or meet people, and then they're wondering, like, when can I bring this up? Or there's definitely like ways to navigate um bringing up the conversation because people are really hesitant. And then as soon as like you maybe on date three or four, and then you find out that they are a hard no on and or or they're not as open-minded as they thought, then it was a waste of time, effort, energy, all that kind of stuff. So having someone like me vet all that out ahead of time um helps people um save that emotional bandwidth for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

All right. All right, so let's start with the way we like to start um every lifestyle conversation we have is tell us a little bit about yourself. So you're married, you're you're you're monogamous, you're you're uh non-monogamous, um where do you live? All that. I want to know everything about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yeah, so my profile personally is that I have been non-monogamous with my husband for about 10 years. And I would say in the swinging lifestyle for about eight, specifically in 2017. And I always first heard the term about swinging when I was in high school. And I always thought that was amazing. Like you could have a normal, happy marriage and you could still have sex with other people. Like, yeah, that sounds great. And in high school, too, I was bicurious. Um, so I always had that like in the back of my mind. And fast forward to meeting my husband, he had he was already very open-minded. I was further inspired through a platform called Tumblr, um, which is like a beautiful social media platform where there's like really tasteful pictures and gifts and videos and stories, and it just like it really did it for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

And so Tumblr is like the old Reddit, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 5:15

It I would, yeah, I would say it's pretty similar to Reddit. People really share all their it's it's anonymous and people do share um their thoughts and feelings and opinions on certain I haven't seen Tumblr in a while, but I do remember when it was popular. Yeah, they stopped making it sexy, and so then people were just like, This is that's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

That's why I went to Reddit, probably.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Mm-hmm. And yeah, so when I had brought the conversation up to him, he was like, Yeah, sounds great. And him and I were both in the military. That's where we met. We met when we were in Japan, and we were long distance for six months. And during that time, to help pass the time, we wrote eroticas to each other back and forth, pretending that we were in these situations that were like really sexy. And um, but yeah, because like early on in our connection, we did have our my first threesome with a woman, which was fun. And yeah, fast forward, we wrote eroticas and we were together, I think, um monogamously for about a year or so, maybe a year and a half. And then when we moved to San Diego, that is where we really launched. And the way we got into it, and this is kind of like what I also recommend for new people to have like a similar journey to us is that we first, I don't know how I discovered FetLife, but then I went on FetLive, went to a munch or meetup, and I went to a poly meetup and the people were nice, but not quite for us. But it was a great way to network like where to go, what to do, like what's the thing. Um, we actually met another couple there that were also more swinger lifestyle versus poly. Um, so we actually made plans to go to a swinger club called Thad's in San Diego um later on, but we also went to like a rope time shibari meetup, also wasn't quite for us, and we're like, where are the swingers? So we went to our first swinger club at Thad's, and then we're like, oh yeah, these are our people. And yeah, ever since then we've gone to clubs and house parties. The way we like to be is full uh like under the same roof. If it's like a house party we're comfortable at under the same roof, you know, we'll do things separately. But typically our favorite situation is to be uh full swap, group play, um, and you know, various threesome scenarios. Um I I, you know, I like to be creative and switchy, or we just kind of go over the wind takes us. We just have like, we just like to have a lot of fun. Um and yeah, so that's a little bit about us. We've been together for also um a little over 10 years, and now we live near Chicago, and there is a couple of um well, we're definitely here to build like community. So one thing that I've actually created because I felt inspired through my own personal journey was I've now create social events here in the Chicago area. So I do like non-monogamous speed dating events for individuals, so it's like one-on-one. I do couples of couples speed dating. I also do a thing called EM Social Club, which is for anyone who's curious to experience a non-monogamy and girl-only events. So one that we have coming up is like a girls-only speed dating or did EM Galantines and stuff like that. And then I got into matchmaking because of like the way that progressed was I was in the military, got my MBA, wanted to start my own business. And then the idea of matchmaking came to me. This was when we've been together, um, I think we were in the lifestyle around like five years or so at this point. And the idea of matchmaking came to me because I was already kind of organically matchmaking, anyways. Like whenever there was a single um guy or girl, and I was like, oh my god, you guys would totally hit it off, or couples of couples, like you guys would like each other. And it was the best feeling to be like so intuitive on who would connect well with each other. And after, yeah, so we were honeymooning in Iceland, and the screenshot was going around of a matchmaker looking for singles for her clients, and it was really well received. And so I looked into seeing if there were matchmakers doing non-monogamous matchmaking, and there were none, to my surprise. So I was like, oh, well, I would love to be the first one. And so I talked to a bunch of matchmakers after the honeymoon. They're like, we need someone like you because there's no one like you who is doing this. And so then that's when I got certified. And then I started Birds of Feather matchmaking in the beginning of 2023. And ever since then, just been growing and planting seeds and building a really luxurious style of um matching with people who are non-monogamous, and now I'm part of a really in-depth community collective of matchmakers who are now inclusive of matchmaking, inclusive of the LGTBQ community, and people who are also traditional. So our matchmaking um platform is open to everybody to hopefully make some matches, and there's like a compatibility measurement. And on top of that, we also are we do one-on-one vetting and background checks, and it's just very thorough. And um, yeah, I love it. So we definitely have people connected in all sorts of ways.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I think that's amazing. Yeah, so it's so funny. You know, when me and Lacey started on this journey, uh, it was like COVID 2020, you know, and Lacey started an OnlyFans, and it was like, Oh, how can we advertise OnlyFans? And we're like, Oh, we'll go on TikTok and start talking about being swingers, having no idea like the Pandora's box that we were about to open. And at that time, like nobody, like there was no, I mean, there were like three people on TikTok that were talking about swinging, like total, right? Um, so it blew up really quick, and it's in you know, it's always been this kind of underground thing, right? And like you're saying, you know, the websites, some of them are okay, some of them suck. They're terrible. But you're like trying trying to connect with people. A lot of these parties are kind of you know rough or suck, you know. There's some good ones, but you gotta find them.

SPEAKER_06 10:28

You know, you overanalyze, you overthink, you know, you want to pre-plan everything, so it it almost is worse because it they're not great and it's hard because you're you're so new.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah, so this is to me like it's amazing to see something like this where you're curating a community and doing it, you know, providing a need for people at like a a high-end level, you know, like exactly like a more upscale feel. Right, yeah. That hasn't, I don't think it's existed in this space up and you might be the first one ever, like what you're saying, you know.

SPEAKER_06 10:59

Especially like with a couple and you want to have sex with another couple for the first time. You don't just want to like go you want to like find the right one, you know, the somebody that you can trust, that you you don't have to worry, they're not gonna try to steal your spouse, that you know they've been tested. They you don't want like so just to like walk into a club and hope you find that is is can be hard.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah, I think the old way of doing it was kind of underground back alley, you know, behind closed doors ways of doing it. So having a service where that can cater to you and knows what you your needs, wants, and desires and can try to align that with somebody else that's looking for the same thing. I think that I think that's really um really really cool.

SPEAKER_06 11:39

Yeah, I've heard of people like because uh they don't know how to they don't know that these services are off of I've heard of people like going to Vegas and getting um hiring escorts and stuff, hiring escorts because like it's controlled, you know, they can pick exactly what they want. Um so this I think is a better alternative for that.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Definitely, yeah, and being able to compare what people are looking for and make alignments on various things, including even core values. Sometimes people want similar politics, or maybe some people do want to connect with someone who has the same like religion or want certain hobbies and interests, and they have like the same like long-term goals or they want the same things. Yeah, it's really nice to just have all that information in there and say, Yeah, um, I found someone for you who is like this, or if if it's a fresh search, then it's essentially executive, uh executive recruiting for their love life. And yeah, being able to um yeah, take it away from there and save time and yeah, have another person evaluate compatibility and explain to you, like present to them like why you think there's like compatibility and engaging uh and then interesting too with like the lifestyle is when it comes to attraction, is a lot of people, and I think you would agree is like our portfolio portfolio of preferences is quite diverse because we found our person typically. Um, or otherwise, if you're if you had experience being non-monogamous and then you're now you're you find yourself single, but you're like, Well, I made lots of connections with all sorts of people. So I feel like a lot of um traditional monogamous people are so specific about their preferences and their type that they will be so closed off to connections, even if there's compatibility. But the nice thing about non-monogamous people is like um there's a lot, there's a lot of flexibility. We really just want to vibe with someone, we want to connect with them, we want to have good banter, we want the important things more than the superficial things, which is nice.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Of course, attraction is important, but um I think we care about um personality more or yeah, well, and me and Lacey have been talking about that, and you can maybe even touch on this a little bit. And something we always say is that I think people that are new to the lifestyle and they're approaching making connections with non-monogamous people, in the beginning, you almost treat it like you used to treat traditional dating. Because you don't do any different, like you're looking for that guy or girl that, like you're saying, yeah, that there's a strong attraction to, that you have a lot of mutual interest, you know, you're looking for somebody that you would probably think about taking home to mom and dad and dating and marrying, right? Like that's how because that's just how you've been taught to think about dating, is looking for somebody that you want a long-term relationship. But once you can kind of flip your brain and be like, wait a minute, I don't want a long-term relationship. I really don't care what this person's uh financial situation is, or I really don't care what you know, X, Y, and Z is because I'm just here for a positive experience, right? I don't need all that foundation that you need in a traditional monogamous relationship or in a primary relationship. And so once you kind of realize that, it it opens up the amount of connections I think that you'd be open to.

SPEAKER_06 14:38

And I found that I've had like pretty amazing sex with people that at first glance I probably wouldn't have been traditionally drawn to. But if I just kind of allow myself to get to know them for who they are and less about like the outward appearance, I've had some pretty fucking amazing times with those type of people.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Definitely same.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, and I think that's what people struggle with. I think people go into this in the beginning and they're trying to find that like Mr. Wright or Mrs. Wright, like you were when you were dating in the the traditional sense. And in that can, you know, it was really hard to find Lacey, you know what I mean? So trying to find uh, you know, trying to find another Lacey that then Lacey also isn't threatened by or doesn't, you know, and also has a connection with and feels safe with. I mean, that's almost impossible, you know what I mean? So you you kind of almost have to open up your bubble a little bit to make connections.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

I would agree with that, yes. You got started in matchmaking because you were just doing it with your friends and that then you're like between doing it or yeah, just realizing I was doing it organically and connecting people gave me such like an adrenaline boost, and I was like so invested in like how their date went and how the sex was between them and like all these things. And then when I fast forward and I didn't even really occur to me to oh, actually, no, I take that back because I used I did um watch um Millionaire Matchmaker growing up with my mom, but um, it didn't occur to me to like make it a career from my own. And yeah, when I just saw matchmakers, you know, recruiting online, I was like, wait a second, that was like my aha moment. And I was like, I've already been doing this and I already love the idea. Everything about matchmaking just like really lights me up. Um, there's a term called iky guy that always stuck with me, and it's like a combination of oh gosh, um, I want to be more, I want to be um specific of what the iky guy means because it is really good for people to just like keep in mind. So it's what you love is a combination of a few things. It's what you love, what the world needs, what you're good at, and what you can be paid for. And so realizing I could do non-monogamous matchmaking was like my aha moment for my iky guy. And I just been running with it ever since, and it still brings me a lot of um, a lot of joy to be this person and facilitate connections, whether it is through me or through my events or through parties or anything like that. I just want good people to meet other good people. And so that way there's longevity in the lifestyle, it normalizes non-monogamy, it gives people confidence who then become public, knowing that they have support systems. And it's really just the starting point of something really big. Um, because I know like non-monogamy is gonna be the next thing that's kind of like a boom, or it's gonna be like not as taboo, not so scary. And there's gonna be just more people out there that are less scared to be open and be their authentic selves. Because I know a lot of people, I would say most people in the lifestyle live double lives, and maybe they wouldn't, they would like to have live in a world where they don't have to and they can be open and see who else they could connect with or help and help marriages and line things up, or gosh, it's just so many things. If everyone could just be open, honest, and um with their wants to desires, there'd be less cheating in the world. And I'm sure you guys probably hear it a lot too. Like, people are like, oh, you're not monogamous, so you just want to cheat. Like, no, there's open communication that's honesty, and the world would be a better place if um everyone was openly about it because there would be less cheating, because you wouldn't have to hide it, because there would be people who are open to it, or at least you gave your um partner the option to opt in or opt out of this situation of being open or not, you know. So yeah, people.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

So let's talk a little bit about the the going public thing. So you know you started connecting friends, and then you're like, oh man, I could do this matchmaking thing, right? So that now you're you're looking at starting your own business, and then I'm assuming if you're starting your own business doing matchmaking for non-monogamous people, you kind of have to open up about being a non-monogamous person, and then you're also putting your face out there.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

Yeah, well, I guess what were you out before you started this, or did this kind of push you to that?

SPEAKER_03 18:41

No, we were definitely private and not out about this kind of stuff at the time that the business idea came to fruition. And that was definitely part of the conversation that we had when I was like, Do you think we could do this? And my my husband Ryan, he's like the most supportive husband. I'm so lucky to have him. He's like, Yeah, let's go for it. And yeah, so that meant we had to be public. That means because I I mean it makes sense. Um, if I'm gonna be a matchmaker for non-monogamous people, they want to have a connection with me, they want to know that I know what I'm talking about, um, especially when it comes to like the kink world too. Although I, if I had to compare like lifestyle versus kink, I'm definitely more lifestyle, but I'm very educated and in tune and have experience with the kink. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

There's various degrees of it, but I think we're all a little kinky, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Mainly and so yeah, I just knew I and I wanted to be public and be out there because I want more people to be in, I want more people to be in the lifestyle. I guess it's I want to inspire people, like isn't it? It is there's nothing it's very it's a it's a very like it feels like a very powerful position to be in because I I'm all out there. There's nothing that I can say or do that's gonna alter my life because it's already out there. It doesn't like yeah, it's great. Although being in the military, you're not allowed to be non-monogamous if you're married. That's uh yeah. So I was military.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

I don't know if we talked about this, but I was in the army for 21 years and I retired. And this podcast kind of took off like the last year when I was getting ready to retire. And I was just oh my gosh, again, we had no idea what we were doing. And when Lacey's TikTok started to blow up, it was like then the podcast started to blow up, and it was like, Man, oh my gosh, were you you know, luckily I already had a retirement packet in, but I was it was that last year. Were you a little bit worried? I was scared. He was worried people like claimed that they turned him in, like, because it's as our stuff started blowing up, then people on the internet were like, I'm gonna be sending the letter to your command.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

And we shouldn't have to be scared, you know, it's all ethical. Um, but yeah, so we wanted to be public and he was okay with that. And so fast forward to me starting the business, making my LLC and all that. I talked to my parents. I'm like, hey, I'm starting a matchmaking business. I'm specializing in ethically non-monogamous relationships. And um, and you know, the funny thing is that initially my parents were trying to educate me on lifestyle things. So my dad was like, Oh, um, there's this thing called a unicorn, it's a mystical beast that doesn't exist. And I'm like, oh, that's crazy, you know? And then my mom was like, Oh, there's a site called FetLife that I heard of, and I was like, Oh, I'll have to go check it out. Like it was a bit of a like slow burn because I because eventually I think they started to be like, oh, wait, she's probably in it. And so then it kind of opened up my parents um to share a little bit more about their. So, to my surprise, my parents have also had experiences within the lifestyle. So, and I had a feeling my dad was because he would have like t-shirts in his closet that said, It's not cheating if my wife is, or it's not cheating if my husband's watching. And like, I know what that means. Or like um, he has he would have like bear statues with like bondage, or like he would have like um, yeah, bondage around these bears. So like he would have things like out in the open. And I grew up, luckily for me, I grew up in a non sex shaming household. It's not like we talked about it or like really were like really getting to nitty gritty, but it was never like shameful, which was which I think helped. I didn't have And I didn't grow up religious, which I think helped. And then, yeah, fast forward a little bit. My mom shared with me that she got into it because her vanilla friends invited her to go on a nudist cruise. And so then she got a boyfriend. And then I think she just started exploring our um yeah, the lifestyle a bit more. She even brought my business cards into the swinger clubs in Arizona.

SPEAKER_06 22:21

Oh, we love some good moms.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Yeah, my parents are super supportive. And so I if your parents are supportive, my siblings are supportive. Like I have like I'm in a really healthy and really good position to be able to do that. So that's really interviewing.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

We're lucky because we're in a similar boat where our parents and even our kids and stuff are all pretty supportive of us. But we have friends that, you know, are come from very religious families and stuff that have been like excommunicated from their families because you really appreciate like how open and and loved we are seeing friends go through very different situations.

SPEAKER_06 22:57

Yeah. Um, we've also had lots of friends that found out that their parents are in the life. So I mean, I can think of multiple friends, it's not uncommon, um, to be honest. And I think that's important what you said about the shirt, because I think a lot of people think they're hiding it from their kids and stuff. Kids see everything.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

So that pineapple tumbler in your in your um.

SPEAKER_06 23:20

Yeah, if you can't see everything, yeah. Kids go through everything. They see I mean, I can remember when I was little, I looked through everything of my parents when they were gone. So if you are in the lifestyle and you're trying to keep it from your kids, just know they're watching.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yeah, they they might they might know if you have stuff like that out and about for sure, or they'll connect the dots later on.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

Yeah, why don't you have all these costumes? In the middle of the year, yeah. Theme parties. Actually, it's funny. My son said that he's like, Why aren't all the parties you have a costume? I said, maybe swingers love a theme.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

It's Halloween, you're right.

SPEAKER_06 23:57

Yeah, we always gotta have a theme. He was like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

I guess that's actually a a good question I have for you guys. I don't know if you shared it with your listeners before, but how did your kids find out, or how did that conversation go?

SPEAKER_06 24:10

So my son found out from school. He okay, so let me tell you, let me back up. He knew that I had gone pretty viral on the internet, so we never kept that from him.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

We just didn't say what it was actually for.

SPEAKER_06 24:24

We did our explanation was we are sex positive and we support all types of relationships, whether that be two mommies, two daddies, three mommies, two mommies, and one daddy, you know, whatever. We support our relationship, and he knew we had a podcast, and honestly, he was in like sixth grade, and to me that was very age appropriate for him. Of course, he went to school, and one one kid had a pretty young mom who probably wasn't making the best decision. That mom told my son that we were swingers, and he picked him up from school, and he got the car and immediately said that. Dan was still active duty military at the time, so I called him. He was like, All right, I was like, get your ass home, I need help. And so he came home and it was honestly kind of hard, but like, how do you explain that to somebody that's in sixth grade? You know, like outside of what we had already.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Well, the hardest part about it is then him having to go to school and deal with other kids and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 25:20

But I was definitely, I don't think he thought any different. I think he loved us and it was more of the like what he was getting at school. And now that's been you know six or six years, I would say five or six years from now. And um we're in a much healthier, better place now, and he's he's happy and content and dying. I'm sure he'd rather his mom not be on the internet. I mean, like any teenager, it didn't matter if I was just dancing or whatever moms on the internet is embarrassing. Um dance kids, one found it. You want to tell you wanna tell that story?

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah, my daughter had found it.

SPEAKER_06 25:56

They were much older.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Like my son actually didn't know him for a long time, and we ended up telling him. Um, but she was at first she was kind of weirded out by it. Same kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 26:05

Like they were pretty graduated.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

But they very quickly became because my daughter saw me as like a conservative military, like stick in the mud, you know, kind of guy. Um she's a very much like she's bisexual, and she, you know, she she's pretty like a free spirit. So I think it kind of opened her up to like, oh, maybe dad isn't such a like hard-nosed, like straight edge kind of guy. He may, you know. And uh so it ended up being really good. I think we're we're closer for that. Um, it's my son seems like he doesn't really care. He was more like surprised how many followers we had on TikTok than really was about us being swingers.

SPEAKER_06 26:39

Like the kids really are like, you have how many followers like they like people like come to party because they don't understand that mom and dad are kind of cool, they don't quite pay attention. That's probably even the biggest thing. But now I feel like we're in really good.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

But it's been it took years. I mean, there was there's up and it was hard, but it took years, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, I feel like when it comes to becoming public about this kind of stuff, what I did is I gradually did it. Like I didn't just go full on posting it everywhere, I kind of just did what was like what I was comfortable with. So like I kept my Facebook like just regular, and I didn't have like business accounts, but then eventually I did have a business account, or I did have it be public and not private anymore, anything like that. So I just for those who do want to become a little bit public, just do little bits of crumbs, you know. You don't have to go full out first video like out in lingerie, just do whatever makes you comfortable, even that starts with like a public.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Lacey's third TikTok went 11 million views, so we or third TikTok won 11 million. So we we we did the opposite. We ripped the band-aid the band-aid office.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

It was awful quick. It was awful. Would you have if you could go back? Do you think you would like have a a a slower?

SPEAKER_06 27:50

Yeah, I mean, I think if I had to go back, I would like for it to be different. But the truth is I don't know that I was brave enough. You know, like I'd like to think that I was brave enough to be like, I'm a swinger, I'm proud. But the truth is I I think I was scared.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

And so Ruffin the Van-Aid to get to that point. That's a lot of guts. You feel confident.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

I live in in the same town I was born in. Like I was born and raised, lived here my whole life. Yeah, in the deep south, you know. So I think a lot of people just from where if I lived in a town that I didn't know anybody, I would give two shits. I'm like, fuck all of y'all. But because I do kind I do care, you know, it's taken some like a lot of work to get to now. I'm totally fine. Now I'm okay. Um, but it it it was definitely a a hard pill to swallow for me. Dan was still active duty, he was actually deployed when things went viral. So I was very hard to think. Yeah, he was, you know, a 12-hour call disc, you know, so he's sleeping when I'm awake. So it was I felt very alone and it was a very hard time. Um but now, like in hindsight, I'm glad it happened and I'm it all worked itself out.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

It always works out.

SPEAKER_06 29:07

And now it's like I can't imagine having to hide that piece of me. I feel like for the first time ever in my whole life, I've like seen for who I am. And if you don't like me for my true authentic self, then okay, you know, I'd rather somebody not like me for for me than like then like me for a false character that I've created. And so um, you know, it's it's definitely been a journey for me. Dan doesn't I don't think Dan really cared that he was out it he didn't.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I was worried about being able to retire, but other than that, I could give up two shits less what people think I'm making.

SPEAKER_06 29:42

It's definitely two different journeys for us. Um but I'm happy where we've ended up here. So I'm gonna get it now. So is your own thing?

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Yeah, eventually you stop caring what people think, or like what's the core words? Like those who don't mind matter, and those who matter don't matter. Whatever.

SPEAKER_06 29:59

When people ask me, they're like, Have you lost friends? Have you the truth is nobody just comes up to you in public and be like, I think you're a bad person. You're just wondering. People don't do that. Like no one says anything in person. Nobody says anything in person. You know, they find like we don't find a lot of people talk to us at like school events or something like that. They kind of keep their distance, and and that's okay, you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Is your being able to be public too, or does he still have to be a little more discreet?

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Oh, yeah. No, he's he's as public as me. I mean, and probably more public because I talk more, but um, yeah, no, he's like his well, it's hard to be in a safe place to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

You know, you most people that we know that are able to be public own their own business or entrepreneurs or or you know, something like that. So uh it it I think for a lot of people, they're just not in a place in their life where they can be public.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yeah, and for those who can't be public, that's I guess like to circle back to like matchmaking is that that's kind of like the nice privacy barrier that I can provide for people who are not who don't want to be who don't want to have their faces on apps. And we all know like to to have more successful connections through websites and apps, like you have, I mean, you it's ideal to show your face. And if you don't show your face, then it's like a longer vetting system. Um, and having like a good profile, having all these things are um super important, which is also something I like to do is just like helping people with their online profiles and emphasizing the importance of that. Um yeah, that's a bit of a side of the sidetrack to what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

But that's no, but I think it's important, you're right, because a lot of people that cannot be public, they'll make a profile, but then it doesn't have a face picture. So then you have to like get to know somebody before you share it. And then if you share it, finally share a picture after you've been talking for two days and you're not attracted attracted to that person, you've just wasted you know two days. So for people that are in like a more sensitive because I know like some people are teachers and pastors, and like if their face gets shown on a swinger website, they they could lose everything. And so hiring someone like you to kind of help them through this is probably like a smarter way to do it than just throwing something up and hoping that uh nobody recognizes you.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

All right, well, I think now's the perfect time to take a little break and hear from the partners and sponsors of the Swing Nation podcast. And then when we get back, I do want to go a little bit through some of that. So, like if somebody comes to you, they're new, they're either a single or a couple and they're looking for to make matches, I kind of want you to get some of like just generic advice that maybe that you can help with some of these people that are out there struggling with that. So we'll talk about that on the back side of the break. We'll be right back, guys. Lacey, if you're gonna be a swinger, yeah, you need to be a responsible swinger.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Uh, and part of being a responsible swinger is getting tested on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Now, something I didn't know is not all STI, STD testing is the same.

SPEAKER_06 32:59

That is correct.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Not every family doctor fully understands how you should be getting tested.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

That is correct. What one doctor thinks is a full panel, another doctor may have a completely different version of that.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

And being somebody in the lifestyle and engaging with multiple partners, um what you should be getting tested for is probably if you're not telling your doctor that, what you should be getting tested for is probably different than what they're thinking in their head.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

Yeah, because they don't know your lifestyle. Or or even if they do know your lifestyle, there's a like, for instance, there is a new one called MGEN. And we just recently met a doctor at a lifestyle party and said that she had never even heard about it. And so she was awesome that we had educated her on that. So a lot of these doctors don't they don't know it all.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Right. So if you are going to participate in the lifestyle, you probably need to get tested from people that are meant to do this. Yes. Um, so we use I Know My Status. It's the same people behind talent testing who are the it's a company that tests all the porn stars. So they're used to testing people that um engage with multiple partners. They know all the latest on what STIs are you know coming up and and spreading, and they they track all the stats. I mean, they they know how to test people for STIs. They're the experts.

SPEAKER_06 34:19

They are. And if someone that you engage with, you know, if they have used I know my status, they can actually give you a QR code and you can scan it and you can see their results right on your phone. So you can confirm everything that they're telling you.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah, 100%. So please, if you're getting tested, get tested the right way. We recommend using I Know My Status. You can go to theswing nation.info, recommended apps and products, scroll down to the I Know My Status icon and you can get a discount off your first test. Um, but please, if you're being uh if you're swinging, if you're engaging with the people in the community, please be safe about it. Go get tested.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

Yeah, because we want you to fuck like a porn star.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

For sure.

SPEAKER_06 35:00

Dan, if someone is just recently joining the live cell and they don't really know where to begin, what do you recommend?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Well, the lifestyle, you know, it's 2025. And people are on the internet. They are and there just so happens to be lifestyle websites that are dedicated to people connecting in the lifestyle. Yes. SDC happens to be one of our favorites. Over three million users. You can find people in your area, you can find clubs, you can find parties. All of it is right on SDC. Um, and you can get a huge discount by signing up with us.

SPEAKER_06 35:34

You can.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

So all you got to do is if you're looking for lifestyle people in your area, if you're looking for the clubs, if you're looking for the parties, go to theswing nation.info, recommended apps and products, scroll down to the STC icon. We'll give you a free trial. Yeah. You can check them out, you can see who's in your area, you can see if it's uh if it's the app for you, uh, all completely risk-free. Yes. So just head on over to theswing nation.info and get signed up for STC today. Lacey, one thing I don't leave home without when going to a swinger event is my ED medication.

SPEAKER_06 36:09

That is correct.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Performance anxiety is 100% a real thing. Um, having sex in an orgy room with um a hundred people in there is way different than having sex at home in your bedroom.

SPEAKER_06 36:21

It is.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Um, so I like to have what we call a little insurance policy and have some of that ED medication in my pocket. Um Shameless Care. It's who I use for that. They actually just came out with a new product called the Shameless Duo. Yeah. Which is a combination medicine that has Viagra and Cialis in it. So that one, you can be ready whenever, but also it's got that dose that you can take when you're, you know, as you're getting ready to go to the playroom and you need that to kick in. Yeah. So I love it. I mean, I used it uh HEDO for the first time, and that that combination.

SPEAKER_06 36:54

You've got to pretty much switch to that, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 36:56

That's basically what I use all the time, yeah. Yeah. So if you're looking for ED medication, if you're new to the lifestyle uh and you're going to an event, you might want to get some and have it just handy in case you need it, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

And the really cool thing about shameless care is they don't set you up on a recurring plan. So you're not gonna get all of this ED medication that you have in your nightstand built up. When it's time that you need more, you'll get an email from them and they'll ask you, hey, are you ready for another round? And you can respond back, yes, please refill it, or no, I'm good right now. Thank you. So it's really cool because you don't end up with all these extra pills and spend a bunch of money that you're not, you know, you don't need to spend.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yeah, and my favorite part is you don't actually have to go into an office and talk to your family doctor or a military doctor. Um, you can do it all right online from the privacy of your home. Uh you just go to their website, you fill out some forms, the doctor reviews it, approves you, disapproves you, and you move on from there. So if you would like to get some medication, you can go to theswing nation.info, click on the little recommended apps and products, uh scroll down to the shameless care icon, click on that, and that's going to take you over there. Uh, there's some discount codes there for you, so you can get a discount off your first order. But uh I highly recommend if you're going to some events or parties, go get you some lifestyle insurance. All right, guys. Check it out. All right, guys, welcome back, welcome back. Thank you for listening to our sponsors. Lacey loves our sponsors.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

I do.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Uh okay, so we're here with Victoria. Uh she's kind of gave us her, she's we got to know her a little bit. She's she's told us her life story and her journey into non-monogamous matchmaking. And so now I want to get into the the meat and potatoes of how this works, Victoria. So when these singles that are looking for a partner that's non-monogamous, or even couples that are trying to connect with other couples that are non-monogamous, uh, and maybe they're struggling, right? Maybe they're on some of those major websites out there, and they have just been um not successful as with as many of us are on those websites. Uh, and so they've they've heard you on the podcast or they found your website or something, and they come to you. So, what what do you do for them? What kind of walk me through how this works?

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Yeah, so the way to get in touch with me, there's a few different routes, right? You heard about me. Um, and the first thing to do is to go to my website, Burzafeather Matchmaking.com. And there's gonna be two different options there. One, um, I'm ready for a match or to join my registry. And always I recommend to join my registry because it takes you on a journey, basically, um, to really get to know you, your core values, things that are important to you. And what I like about it too is at the very end, there is a video interlife a self-recorded video interview that you can do. So we can really get like a vibe check. Um, so that it's kind of like, what do you think of this application? Tell me about yourself, or I kind of exact, I forgot what the exact question says, but something something along those lines. And so then I review those profiles. And if I think and if you mark that you are interested in matchmaking, then I will reach out and I will invite a invite you to join me on a virtual meeting where I can really get to know you more, uh your preferences, what you're looking for, what your struggles are. And then we talk for usually about an hour, um, give or take. And if I feel like there is, because when it comes to matchmaking with me, I am very exclusive. I only take on clients that I'm super excited about, that I do feel like I can help, that are um matchable, all the all those kind of things. And then so we talk, and then from there I take them or invite them to do a love clarity session where I talk for two more hours, where that is history, that is family history, that is relationship history, that is lore, that is, you know, your non-monogamous history, kink history, like all these things. I really need to get to know you. And then from there, if there's still alignment with being um matched by me, then that's when we will um I will create a proposal and that's when I would invite you to be my matchmaking client. I have and I have optional NDAs and contracts assigned and expectations, and it's very in-depth about working with me because I work with them or with clients for six months. I used to do um a pay-per-match option, um, and now I'm kind of switching it to what I'm going to be calling the nest, which I think I mentioned earlier, which will probably be more for those who are already partnered. Um, so my matchmaking, it's just very all situational. If I feel like I can match for you, I definitely will. Um, so yeah, then basically we get you ready for the dating market in a in a private kind of way. We figure out like how public are you or how comfortable are you with the information being shared and really creating a place of comfort and um how much visibility they're okay with. Um, we do redo redo profiles, we have photo shoots, depending on the packages offered. There could be image consulting. Um, I could do a house call. So I will fly out to clients, spend a half a day with them and see their home and if there's any rooms for improvement. So the way I matchmake is very holistic. I try to find um areas of improvement or like, you know, trying to avoid anyone giving the ick, essentially. Um and yeah, so then I will matchmake for three or sorry, for six months. And depending on the packages, it will range between a minimum of like three to eight guaranteed matches. And if I can't find that many matches, I'll extend the contact at no extra cost. And yeah, it's pretty much it as a presentation about why I think you're compatible with this couple or this person, and then it's up to them to go on the date. And then one thing that I do for an extra layer of privacy is that I don't exchange contacts until they both mutually agree that they would like to move forward. So if I present a match and they're like, yeah, this person sounds great. And when it comes to clients, I'm presenting them people who've already said yes to them. Like they have interests, they do want to meet my client, and then all my client has to do is say yes. And then from there, we'll um plan a date, whether it's in person, ideally, or um, there's different like logistics that can be involved. An easy one if it's long distance, it could be a Zoom, or we coordinate um, you know, sponsoring a weekend, or the client will travel, like there's just ways, but ideally we wanted them to meet in person, gauge chemistry that way. And then if it goes well, they take the connection from there. And if it doesn't, we get feedback. So after after the dates as well, I get feedback from the client and the match just and see if there's any room for improvement, or people maybe repeating the same thing. So it's like it's definitely a journey that everyone goes on when it comes to matchmaking, that areas that may never even thought of, or more introspection on themselves and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, essentially executive recruiting for someone's love alive. It's very thoughtful, very intentional, high quality matches, great people. Um, I even like to think like I care so much about my clients. I'm like, I there's days I might cross paths with you. Like, I want to make sure that um you're gonna be prepared to be. Those faces and that that you are a good representation of the lifestyle or non-monogamy and all that.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

I love that. And I would imagine, you know, we hear all the time like we know a lot of couples that are like looking for like a quality single male, right? And that could be a hard, you know, people they joke that, oh yeah, single males are everywhere out there. But I we know tons of couples that are like, you know, we've spent months on these dating sites and all these dudes and they ghost us and they don't show up.

SPEAKER_06 44:27

Or then they can't get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

And then when they do show up, they don't get hired. Like, you know what I mean? So it's like and then the opposite, every couple wants to find a quality single female to hook up with, you know what I mean? So I would imagine a matchmaking service like this could be, you know, couples to couples, singles to singles, singles to couples. Like there's just it's such a larger dynamic than what you would have in just typical monogamous matchmaking.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 44:49

But yeah, I'm glad you brought up the long distance because especially if you're a couple and you're just like looking for someone to like hook up with, for lack of a better word. Um you want to find like a quality couple, and like maybe you try, you know, if you you want to travel with them a few times a year or something like that. This is so you could almost like you could match them and then you could plan to meet like at a swinger.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Let's go all go on the bliss cruise, let's go to Vita, let's go to C together.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

You know, so it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody right down the road, it could be somebody who lives in another state, but you know, because like we actually, you know, we get Tuesday talk questions where people will write in and ask. But one of the questions we had this week was how do you find like your core couples? Like how do you find like a little community? And before we ever had the podcast or anything, Dan was always like, We need to find like four or five couples that we really like, that we just travel together. You know, we go like the secrets, you know, once a year, we go to HETA once a year, you know, whatever the part, you know, we go to certain clubs. And so, like, this is almost you could find sort of kind of like curating that not just people who want the same thing, yeah. And I think this is like a good way to do that.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Absolutely. I and I have gotten couples that want to have like that are open to long distance and meeting other couples if they're compatible because they want like the ideal dream is to be able to go on vacations and share these experiences with other people.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Yeah, like go and have a beach with your friends and play on the beach and fuck all day.

SPEAKER_06 46:18

Yeah, like totally like travel for a quality couple that like if you're that you're both into that, like you know, the same, like kind of like you're looking for the same. I would much rather like drive a couple hours or fly somewhere than like hook up with someone in your town that's like mediocre. You know, I'd rather have like a really good experience, especially somebody that's newer and that has never done this. It's kind of like you're their big sister or like you're helping them kind of get there.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Yeah. So when people ask you guys how do you build your community, what is usually your answer? Because I have ideas or uh suggestions too and people feel that way.

SPEAKER_06 46:58

Ours has kind of happened organically. So we're not a you know, in the beginning, I think we were afraid to have emotion. You know, we were like we were we are monogamous. Same monogamous. And I think as we got stronger as a couple and got more comfortable in the lifestyle, we allowed some of those walls to organically just kind of start falling down. Where you know, we would you know, before we used to use like a kick and like all of these like things where you can't now we just give you our phone number. If you don't like you, we'll just block you or not respond. It's not that big of a deal. But like we got started to get to know people and we started sharing our contact information. And then if we knew we were going somewhere, we were like, hey guys, we're going here. Do y'all want to go with us? So we kind of like would show up to a party, or we already had like a few couples kind of built in that were going with us. So like the party could be amazing and we could find new people to join us, or it could be like a dud, but then we still have our couple of couples. So it kind of just organically happened like that. And the truth is not all couples can go to everything. So like we would just invite everybody, and then like some would show up and then some wouldn't, but then those couples would come to the next one. So it's like kind of a revolving door of like a handful of really good quality couples that we've sort of and I think we all kind of do it, not even intentionally. We just if we're gonna be somewhere, we want our friends to be there, you know. So we just kind of like, hey, we're going to this, y'all should come, we'd love for y'all to come. And then some people come, some people don't.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

And that's you know, that's how we built our community prior to the to the podcast and social media. And now you add the podcast and social media, it's just like put that on steroids, right? Now it's like we just put on social media we're gonna be somewhere, and a ton of people will show up and you know, pick them up and they'll talk to us. And if we vibe with people, it's like, oh yeah, here's our friends, this is our friend, that's our friend. You know, we gotta go throw this party, but hang out with them for a while, and then later in the night we'll circle back and you know, and like check in with our friends and be like, So what do you think of the new couple? And they'll be like, Oh, they're fucking awesome. Like, okay, well, are we orgying tonight? Do you want to invite them? Like, yeah, you know, like that's kind of how we grow our community now because we don't necessarily have the time to do one-on-one. So we kind of just like introduce people or our friends and let them vet them a lot of times.

SPEAKER_06 49:17

But yeah, just see friends that we met like before the podcast, or even through this journey, then meet friends that so like we've kind of introduced all of these people and then they've kind of branched on off and made their own little groups. And so it's like all kind of very much happen organically, and it's it's really fun. It's like for me, I'm sure you can relate to this, it's very rewarding to then see these relationships kind of like it's not really it's a friendship, I guess, and maybe not relationship, but like whatever you want to call it, kind of blossom and they get close.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

And we'll like meet a couple on Bliss Cruise and we'll be like, Oh, you guys gotta come to Secrets with us, right? And so then they'll come to Secrets, and then we have our friends that are always come to every secrets, and we'll be like, Oh, yeah, this is this couple that we met on Bliss Cruise, they're awesome. Now they'll hang out, and then we'll see them, they'll be at the beach, like you know, a month later, hanging out just together, the two of them, and it's like that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

You know what I call all this? I call it slutty networking.

unknown 50:12

I love that.

SPEAKER_06 50:13

That is exactly what it is, and so people come to us and ask that a lot, and it's sort of very much organically how it's not yeah, did we want a group of friends that we could travel with? Yes, but like it's sort of kind of all happened organically, and we try very hard to keep in touch with everybody. We're because we are so busy, we're not the the best at like texting a bunch of people. But like if we know you're gonna be somewhere or we know we're coming to your area, we definitely try to like reach out and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

So for those who don't want to use a matchmaking service, but they're trying to matchmake for themselves. I have similar, I have a like pretty much the same advice. So I had to start, we had to create our own community two different times. So we used to live in San Diego, and then we you we now live here in near Chicago. And we moved here in Chicago March 2020. So literally a couple weeks before the pandemic hit. Wow. And so we actually during that year, we just kind of took a beat. Um, but we did network, we you know, we were on the field and we're like, hey, like what does everyone like to do? Where are they going? And then we found out that there was a swinger club 15 minutes, 15 to 20 minutes from our house.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

And I was like, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

And it's called uh Young Couple's party. So everyone's 42 and under. So we're like even more perfect. We'd like coincidentally got a house in a gray area for all that. Um, but basically, yeah, both times of how uh Ron and I started our community was we would just go to in-person events. Um we found communities and we just kept showing up and we would then like get contacts, we'd exchange and make plans. So when you go to in-person things, you have to keep momentum going. You have to have plans, you want to try to meet them up at a party again, you want to maybe want to do double dates or you want to do like game nights. Um, in San Diego, that's kind of like what happened. We would go to different clubs and we're like, oh, this was like a fun couple that we actually um later learned that they were more compatible with us than us than we thought. So like there was this one couple that we were introduced, like we thought that they were poly. And so at the time we thought poly meant that they were closed when we were when we were new. Um and then we came out or then we learned that they actually swingers and they literally have like gang or they have um, yeah, I think uh DP parties on Wednesdays sometimes. And so they already kind of had a community. So if you can meet someone who maybe is more established in the area who already has friends, like I'm people like people who like to host, we're like, yeah, we want our friends to be have more friends and we want to get people together.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

It seems like on the West Coast they're all poly, like all the swingers say they're poly. Then you'll talk to them and they'll like it's like they don't like the word swinger. They'll say, like, oh, we're polyamorous, but we're in a primary relationship and we go to play parties with other countries.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

It's like yeah, people define themselves all sorts of swinger.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

That's a swingers.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Like yeah, people are all the above. I that's why I I when it comes to describing open poly and swinger relationships, I really have it really down to very simple sentence of like the differences, like open relationships is you're open to doing things separately, you might go on dates separately. Um, but oh like have you ever seen that one diagram where it shows all the non-monogamous relationship types?

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Like the bubble thing where there's like bubbles inside of bubbles, and then oh yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yep, yep. So the open relationship is like the biggest one because yeah, that's the easiest way to describe it. Polly is intimate, loving relationship and connections, and then you know, lifestyles like sexual experiences. But people can be all the above and they figure out like what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Well, I think the truth is most of us are different levels of all of those, really.

SPEAKER_06 53:39

You just need to ask them what does that mean to you? If they say we're swingers, okay, what does that mean to you? That might mean the wife just plays, or we met we met one time a girl one time that said she was a hot wife, but then come to find out her husband played, and we were like, Well, why are you she's like, Well, I'm hot, like, yes, you are hot, but you are a wife. Sure, that's what I thought. I'm like, yeah, so I think you have to like you have to ask more questions. You can't just assume because somebody said, like, for instance, if somebody says they're poly, you have to ask, What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Because it's such that's the biggest buzzword. Yeah, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And then I agree. I think building community, that's the thing, is you got to go to these parties and events and and meet people. And for us, it's the we we've really stopped going on one-on-one dates because we just don't have the time. And it's such a commitment, it's such a commitment that if it's a dud, it's like it's just such a waste. So when we meet couples online and couples reach out, we're like, we're gonna be here this weekend, we're gonna be at this party, we're gonna be at this club. Say hey, come hang out with us. And if we vibe, cool. If not, we'll just go on. We'll hang out with our absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

No, we are the same way. We're we have a big community with lots of friends, and we really don't have capacity for double dates or to meet like new people that way. We always say, like, let's meet at an event. Yeah, that way you can do a vibe check there. And then if it if you hit it off, wonderful. And if not, you your whole evening's not wasted.

SPEAKER_06 55:00

Um they don't even have to show up. Life goes on, it's totally can't get ghosted.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

If you don't show up, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

So we have fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

And so yeah, but I think a lot of new people are like, Oh, we don't want to do group stuff, yeah. We don't want to be seen like this. And it's like, okay, well, then that's kind of you realize you're on a different experience level, and you're like, okay, well, I'll maybe catch you in a year or two when you don't have these prequel.

SPEAKER_06 55:22

We are very much group play people. We will do like if like we really want to connect with a couple, like if it's been a while and we haven't had time or and it's mostly like if we want to connect with a couple and they're not group play people.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Yeah, sometimes we'll split off, but if we want to connect with a couple and they're group play, we'll get them in the group. But if they're like not group play people, sometimes they'll break away.

SPEAKER_06 55:44

And I really encourage people that are listening to this to if you can be in a group and not have sex with everyone, like you are allowed to say no, thank you. You're allowed to have a voice, you it it is not a free-for-all. And I think a lot of like I think a lot of newer people think they don't want to tell someone no. I care about my body way more than I care about somebody else's feelings. Yeah, and I'm gonna try to be as kind and sweet and treat those people the way that I want to be treated, but you can totally do that and still Yeah, you can go into a group situation and just hook up with the one person that you were interested in.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Like you can only fuck your partner if that's what you want to do.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

And just fuck your partner. Or yeah, sorry, just have sex with your partner. Yeah, sometimes like use your hands in the mix without being, you know, so sometimes she'll bring a wand and she'll just sit in the corner.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

She'd be like, I'm a little wore out, you know, it's the end of a blister's week or something. She's like, Well, I don't know like fucking anybody, but I'm gonna bring my wand and I'll watch y'all have fun.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's no pressure, like, and yeah, there shouldn't be any assumption that I mean it is nice when everyone likes each other, but that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_05 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

Um, and you can always say, like, hey, I'm tired, you know, try to let your partner like get, you know, hit their wiggle, their wiggles out, and then like, okay, let's, you know, time to hit the hay, like when it comes to like um energy levels and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

But um, yeah, so then I would say if if you don't have community in your area, like if you go to a couple parties and it's not your vibe, you know, a lot of people that we know that have event groups and parties, they started it because they couldn't find one that fit them. You know what I mean? They went to a couple in their area and they're like, man, this isn't our vibe, this isn't our vibe. And so they just started hosting their own meet and greets at a bar, and that turned it, and then it turned into a hotel, and then that turned into a, you know, they just get grow and grow and grow. If if if you're in an area that doesn't have a community, I almost would guarantee you that there's a need for that community in that area.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Yeah. And um, another way to make friends or community um is to go to like hotel takeovers or go to keto or find podcasters or community that you really jive with and then just keep going to their events because the people are gonna keep showing up to their events. And if you like someone, then you can make your own plans with them. And meeting at um, you know, out-of-town events shows people like to travel, and that's probably what you want to do. And it just shows different things that you're interested in and you want to be in groups and you want to meet lots of people and you want to be social. So all these things that you have in common, you're already there because you're part of this community. And then there's branding with different communities and like age ranges, and you know, you just got to find that group and then just keep showing up. And um, or you can another strategy too is if you are meeting people off the field, for example. Um, one thing that my husband and I did, we kind of like divided and conquered a little bit. Like there was a time where he was talking to a couple and I was talking to a couple, but again, didn't really have capacity for like one-on-one double dates. I actually propositioned a group date and they were both down. And so then I went and coordinated a uh we did kayaking in the Chicago River, and we're still friends with both these couples years later. So, and you know, doing things like that really shows personality. It really shows what kind of like couple they are, and it just takes a lot of time. So, building community does take, I would say, like a year or so to really find your people, find your core group, unless you really hit it off and you really get like launched into a friend group, which is like the best case scenario. And I try to do that with people who I think would drive with my friend group. And but yeah, but like host things, like you can even do cutesy things if it's like your like house is like not like orgy ready. People still love to do craft nights, they love to do game nights, they love to do wine tastings, like people like to do activities with other people. Like, of course, we love doing it with our partner in loving dates, but it's just like it creates a whole new dynamic to do with new people and groups, and you can really just get to know people, and that's kind of what I'm all gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Yeah, all that stuff is so much more fun when like somebody might whip their boobs out or something, too. You know what I mean? Like it's a whole different idea.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

You go in the bathroom, you take pictures together, you like or like you take your underwear off and you hand it to your husband's like we can just do like cheeky stuff like that that no one knows about, but it takes a little bit of time to find your friend group, but it's so worth it, it's so worth the effort. And for those who don't have it, you know, the that's why we're trying to normalize non monogamy. We're trying to find more cool people to um for you to all to connect with, and it just takes time, but it's worth the wait.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

No, and the effort. That's awesome, Victoria. Uh all right. So is there anything else we haven't talked about that you really want to share with the swing nation community?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:06

Uh, I think we covered a lot, you know, relationships with family and friends and lovers and relationships. Um, I think I already said that, but yeah, if anyone uh resonated with me and what I said or has interest in matchmaking, I can be reached uh various different ways. EM matchmaker on pretty much all social platforms or birds of a feather matchmaking.com. Um yeah, I try to be really good about that. If you're single, highly recommend joining my registry that can be linked through my website. And yeah, I'm here to help, I'm here to be a resource. Um that's like, yeah, that's what that's how it starts to get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:45

Oh, sorry. Can you explain real quick what the registry is versus I know you said you fill out like you said something else. So can you explain?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Yeah, so the registry is another thing I like to call is like the dating database. That's kind of where it's like the application journey to then be in my network. Okay, so like they're not hiring you to actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

So if somebody hires you as a client, you might connect them with somebody in your registry if you think it's a match.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

Correct. Yes, yeah, joining our registry is complimentary. And then if anyone is interested in matchmaking, that's actually one of the questions on there. And then I will get notified that you are interested in matchmaking and we take it from there. But if you're not interested in matchmaking, then you are um open to being potentially matched with clients and um kind of going from there. And if you're in the Chicago area, come to my in-person events. Um, I host those on Eventbrite. And yeah, how do they be going, oh, and I'm going to the Swing Nation uh takeover next week. So anyone there.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

So Victoria is actually gonna be at Secrets for our next takeover here in April.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

So let's that's how we connected with you, just for people to know. So yeah, shout out to Juan Deepa and his beautiful wife. Um, so that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

Yeah, and she's actually gonna help us with the uh speed dating and some of the matchmaking games that we do on Thursday night.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Uh, and then she's she's looking to get more involved and she we should probably, you know, maybe we'll see her at some more events in the future. And she can really help us up our game on that. Because you know, we tell people all the time, especially at Secrets. To me, the Thursday night is like one of the most important nights of the entire world. Yeah, that's where you plant all the seeds. Right, yeah, making the right you're exactly that's it. Planting those seeds for the weekend, right? It you are never gonna end up in an orgy if you don't talk to somebody, right? If you don't get to know people, if you don't and we've had people come to our events and they write us emails after they leave and they're like, we didn't meet a single person in both. And it's like, well, what did you do? Where were you? Like, what if you just hide it in your room for the whole weekend, that's not gonna happen. And I think people have this misunderstanding that if you go to a swingers party, there's just an orgy and you just walk in and jump in, and that's how it works.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:50

Yeah, no, it takes effort, it takes conversation, takes asking questions. Um, and I definitely icebreakers, speed dating, all that stuff. Like it might sound like cheesy, do it because it's that's where it starts. It starts with one conversation and um hopefully have lots of conversations, and then you can have lots of fun experiences throughout the weekend. But a lot of people who are experienced in the lifestyle, like it's more than just looks, it's more than just being grabbed at a part, like in the random org, like, what's your name? Like, we want to get to know you just a little bit, at least some of us. Yeah, um, so definitely go to those social events. Um, I know I will, obviously. And then yeah, definitely gotta participate and help facilitate if they want a thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:26

And honestly, even if you don't want to fuck the people that you meet in these, it's nice to have like we're talking about community. Somebody can be in your little community that you don't actively fuck, you know. Like, and like I've talked about this before. We've done, we kind of a few years ago made ourselves do a lot of things like on bliss cruise like speed dating and stuff. It's been years. If I walk by those couples that we met, I'm like, hey, I mean, you're making friends, you know, and it's so fun to walk into a room and know someone. So even if you're not actively wanting to sleep with these people, it's nice to know a familiar face.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Yeah, and I think you know, those people, even though you only had a one-minute conversation with them, if you were in like an uncomfortable situation in the club or something, like they're you know them now, they're watching out for you. It's it's it's building that community, you know what I mean? And that's like you're saying, this is the most important thing about being successful in this space is making connections and and and participating in those, you know, um meet and greets and matchmaking games and speed dating. That's that's how you if you don't do that, you're never gonna get to the orgies and the and the fun times.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

Yeah, I always tell people too like everyone wants to be approached, but no one wants to approach. So just put yourself out there, break the ice, you know, we're all there to connect. So try to, you know, get in on a conversation that you can, you know, add to, or just go in there with like a random question, or there's just ways to spark it. And it just takes that one little like in and then it gets things talking, it gets things going. And, you know, I guess a little tip too for people is that people don't like to talk about themselves, but they like to be asked about themselves. So if you don't know what to talk about, just ask questions about themselves. And you might notice that they might not ask questions about you, and I think that's a lot of like a little bit of a habit people might have like, oh, let me like what's your like, where do you where are you from? What do you like to do? So ideally try to have some back and forth, getting to know each other, and also picking up on social cues, like if they are acting a little bit flirty or if they're being kind of quiet, they're trying like it's an art, and I know it takes a little bit of time and experience to pick up on those kind of cues, but ultimately everyone's open to having a conversation, even with people that they don't like. So just come up with some topics and um things that you want to talk about that prompt stories. You can see that's because you're a matchmaker.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Me and Lacey are obsessed with the love on a spectrum.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:41

Oh my god, I just I just thought that's what they love on a spectrum.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

It's the best and it's so funny because I I thought of it because what you said is like that's what they tell them to do is when they go on these dates to ask, you know, what's your favorite color? What kind of food do you like? What kind of movies do you like?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

Try to find commonalities and then Yes, because it can be kind of hard to try to carry a conversation with someone that you have nothing in common with. So just keep trying to figure out what you have in common with, and then you can just ride off that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

So you can definitely take it. Yeah, for those who don't see love on the spectrum, would recommend it. So good. It's a good show. So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

All right. Well, we appreciate you, Victoria. We look forward to seeing you here in like just over. I think it's like nine days away or something. Uh I'm so excited. Um, and you'll be helping us out doing the matchmaking.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:29

Yeah. Okay, we'll see you then.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

All right.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:31

All right. See you then.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

And I I think with that, in a world full of apples.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:35

Be the pineapple.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Be the pineapple, guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:37

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

If you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, leave a five-star review wherever you're listening. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswing nation.net and keep up to date on all things swing nation. We thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time. Goodbye.